Unaccredited schools- all degree mills??
#1
Unaccredited schools existed at all levels, from barely legal to pretty good. Were any of them Harvard? Hardly. But they were good enough for many purposes. It was up to us as adults to make the good choices. If we didn't, well, we took the risks. As one infamous expert told us, if it was legal- required work- had a decent reputation, it was acceptable.

So you looked through the Bear guide. Listened to the man's advice, sent off for the catalogs, and made your choice.

Here is the way it was back then. People picked good and bad schools according to their needs and wants. I have no problem with discussions about how good the choices were between the schools. I have a big problem with the idea that all such choices were bad or worse, mills. You can't have a discussion if you start from the point that says they were mills or useless. The degrees were of value to many people, myself included. That the former supporters of such schools now run from their previous statements doesn't make the choices any different.

Some of these schools were legitimate attempts to provide adults with college degrees. Others were mills or just a little better than that. They were not all the same nor were they all useless. They deserve to be treated each to its own works.

Some were good, some were average, and some were BAD. Just like apple pies. Not all are tasty. Smile
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#2
(02-10-2012, 07:39 AM)jamesc1 Wrote: Unaccredited schools existed at all levels, from barely legal to pretty good. Were any of them Harvard? Hardly. But they were good enough for many purposes. It was up to us as adults to make the good choices. If we didn't, well, we took the risks. As one infamous expert told us, if it was legal- required work- had a decent reputation, it was acceptable.

So you looked through the Bear guide. Listened to the man's advice, sent off for the catalogs, and made your choice.

Here is the way it was back then. People picked good and bad schools according to their needs and wants. I have no problem with discussions about how good the choices were between the schools. I have a big problem with the idea that all such choices were bad or worse, mills. You can't have a discussion if you start from the point that says they were mills or useless. The degrees were of value to many people, myself included. That the former supporters of such schools now run from their previous statements doesn't make the choices any different.

Some of these schools were legitimate attempts to provide adults with college degrees. Others were mills or just a little better than that. They were not all the same nor were they all useless. They deserve to be treated each to its own works.

Some were good, some were average, and some were BAD. Just like apple pies. Not all are tasty. Smile

I think we should add to the discussion the fact that a good many accredited schools and, to expand further a number of programs at accredited schools are not all that great either. I personally know a person who took classes in sociology at one accredited school and graduated. The only time he actually showed up for any of his classes was for the final exam. He also cheated on every test. He plagerized all of his term papers.

To me it was a slap in my face because I worked extremely hard to get a degree. But thats just how it goes I guess.

Or to put it as one of my former bosses put it, the secret of success is not to work hard but to work smart. And taking sociology classes and fucking off is one way to succeed. Rolleyes
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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#3
(02-17-2012, 06:00 PM)Virtual Bison Wrote: And taking sociology classes and fucking off is one way to succeed.

"Sociology" and "fucking off" are pretty much synonymous, aren't they?

The joke is on your buddy. He went to all the trouble to cheat his way through school and wound up with a sociology degree. If you're gonna cheat at least cheat at something that has some value.

Now when he asks "You want fries with that?" he will truly understand why cultural and socio-economic conditions cause customers to reply "Did I ask for fries, numbnuts?" and not just general rudeness.
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#4
Last I heard he got a job in sales. He is pretty much doing the same shit he did in college, taking clients to dinner and out to the golf course and making sales.

To be a good salesman you have to be a good bullshit artist. It takes a certain kind of personality I guess.

Most people I know with bullshit majors do stuff like that. I also know a dude whose doing collections. Personally I could never do that because its bad karma to be shaking people down but if you can sleep at night I guess its something you can do.

Then there's always academia. The final refuge of philosphy majors,
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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#5
Many of the people who obtained unaccredited degrees were already fixed in their lives and careers. They had no interest in starting all new lines of employment. They certainly had no interest in spending 4-5 years getting some piece of paper, but, they did have an interest in 6 months to a year in getting a written recognition of their lives and careers. John Bear tapped into that desire and made some bucks doing it. I believe it was a legitimate process and Bear knew it then and knows it now but his own wishes and interests have moved in a different direction, hence the change in attitude. The process was a good one and I still support it.

Accredited schools? Some are good and some are barely legit. As has been mentioned, many cheat and lie their way through and get little education. They do as did Rich D. and scam the system for every form and type of credit and then laugh at the system they misused. Later on they go back and recreate history and try to tell us how fantastic it was. BULL---and I mean major league crap.
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#6
(02-24-2012, 07:40 AM)jamesc1 Wrote: Accredited schools? Some are good and some are barely legit. As has been mentioned, many cheat and lie their way through and get little education. They do as did Rich D. and scam the system for every form and type of credit and then laugh at the system they misused. Later on they go back and recreate history and try to tell us how fantastic it was. BULL---and I mean major league crap.

One thing I learned from this board is that there are a lot of bogus schools selling bogus degrees which wear that cloak of accreditation. There are also a few fairly decent schools which did not get accredited. And its really all based on Politics. A few god-like assholes with little actual knowledge and a lot of unearned power get themselves in very high position and they can pick and choose which school is legit and what is not.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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#7
That is one thing about the so called experts at DI that always annoyed me no end. Guys who used the very easiest/cheapest/quickest RA schools go around telling everyone how if it's RA that's all that matters. Well, you know what? It does matter. Let the gang try out those bottom tier RA degrees as a basis for employment at any of the better colleges and Universities. According to them all unaccredited schools are completely useless while any RA school will meet the needs of everyone. Nope, that isn't right and they know it, or they should know it.

Bear used to say a good unaccredited school would work in many situations. He now says that as long as the school is RA that is all that matters, and those poor boobs either believe or pretend to believe him. Good luck with that. Just wait till they test out those degrees for some of the higher level/paying-- jobs and you'll hear them cry out to papa bear in pain, and you know what? Old Papa will say,''I never said they would work for every need.'' Yep, the old goat will drop them like a hot brick. He has lied before and will again if it benefits him.

Never-Ever believe that Bear will risk going down with the ship to save you, he won't. When you listen to him keep your wallet close and your checkbook locked away. On second thought, don't listen to him. Smile
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#8
(02-10-2012, 07:39 AM)jamesc1 Wrote: Unaccredited schools existed at all levels, from barely legal to pretty good. Were any of them Harvard? Hardly. But they were good enough for many purposes. It was up to us as adults to make the good choices. If we didn't, well, we took the risks. As one infamous expert told us, if it was legal- required work- had a decent reputation, it was acceptable.

So you looked through the Bear guide. Listened to the man's advice, sent off for the catalogs, and made your choice.

Here is the way it was back then. People picked good and bad schools according to their needs and wants. I have no problem with discussions about how good the choices were between the schools. I have a big problem with the idea that all such choices were bad or worse, mills. You can't have a discussion if you start from the point that says they were mills or useless. The degrees were of value to many people, myself included. That the former supporters of such schools now run from their previous statements doesn't make the choices any different.

Some of these schools were legitimate attempts to provide adults with college degrees. Others were mills or just a little better than that. They were not all the same nor were they all useless. They deserve to be treated each to its own works.

Some were good, some were average, and some were BAD. Just like apple pies. Not all are tasty. Smile

California is a great example of this. Until 1989, many unaccredited schools thrived there. Which were mills and which were legitimate? I think it is safe to say that those that met the Approved requirements under 94310(b) were pretty good, many of which went on to accreditation. But the 94310© Authorized category was a real mixed bag.

While it is certainly unfair to characterize all unaccredited schools as mills, it is certainly fair to point out the extreme differences in acceptance of those schools' degrees in the workplace and in higher education. (Of course variations exist among the different categories of accredited schools. Degrees from schools accredited by DETC are markedly less acceptable compared to those from RA schools.)

James is right--look more closely than just the accreditation status.
(02-24-2012, 05:27 PM)Virtual Bison Wrote: One thing I learned from this board is that there are a lot of bogus schools selling bogus degrees which wear that cloak of accreditation. There are also a few fairly decent schools which did not get accredited. And its really all based on Politics. A few god-like assholes with little actual knowledge and a lot of unearned power get themselves in very high position and they can pick and choose which school is legit and what is not.

Which are the bogus accredited schools and why?

Which good, unaccredited schools were denied accreditation because of politics?

Yes, I'm sure politics can enter into the accreditation question. But so can the academic validity of the school in question, its finances, etc. It's complicated.
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#9
(03-06-2012, 10:25 AM)Really? Wrote: Which are the bogus accredited schools and why?

Which good, unaccredited schools were denied accreditation because of politics?

Yes, I'm sure politics can enter into the accreditation question. But so can the academic validity of the school in question, its finances, etc. It's complicated.

The school of which I am most familiar is Kennedy-Western. That was an extremely successful college which emphasised business and engineering programs. And the accreditation mafia shot the works to bring it down. I believe that there are many others which got thrown under a bus as well. There are a number of others which get a bad rap even though they are challenging to students. I believe that Breyer State University is one such school. Maybe American InterContinental University though I believe it is now accredited. Rocheville University seems to be a popular school at the moment but I cannot say whether or not its legitimate. The accreditation mafia likes to bash it but knowing how those assholes opperate they might be picking on it because its making money.

Schools whic are substandard and accredited are rather numerous. I attended PCCI and got a certificate in an area. This school is now called Ashworth College. It is accredited and yadda yadda yadda but the correspondence course I took was extremely easy. A lot of the for profit online schools have gotten bad reviews from various students. I believe that Charter Oak School which awards degrees through examination is not all that great. I am sure there are others on this board who can tell you more.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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#10
Quote:Schools whic are substandard and accredited are rather numerous. I attended PCCI and got a certificate in an area. This school is now called Ashworth College. It is accredited and yadda yadda yadda but the correspondence course I took was extremely easy. A lot of the for profit online schools have gotten bad reviews from various students. I believe that Charter Oak School which awards degrees through examination is not all that great. I am sure there are others on this board who can tell you more.

There are various courses, both free (ItunesU, academicearth etc) and paid (great books, teaching company etc). Suppose it's like taking driving lessons from an accomplished NASCAR driver. Does that amount to a driving license as we know it? No. You have to go to some filthy room packed with immigrants and punky juveniles in a state-owned (run, accredited...) agency and play THEIR GAME to get it.
Olympic runner and multi-medalist Pietro Mennea did not qualify for a job as physical education teacher.
Another one who had won several indy races did not pass the test for a driving license...

A.A Mole University
B.A London Institute of Applied Research
B.Sc Millard Fillmore
M.A International Institute for Advanced Studies
Ph.D London Institute of Applied Research
Ph.D Millard Fillmore
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