Careful What You Say
#1
From Inside Higher Ed:

http://www.degreediscussion.com/forums/v...3&start=90


Of course that is about Jimmy kissing ass. Here's the link

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/08/01/diplomas

Stalkers and all around arseholes better be careful what they say. There is a whole mix of people with St. Regis degrees and any conclusions as to honesty may be premature.

The prosecutor never heard that St Regis offered honorary degrees. Didn't the guy in charge ever look at the friggin website. Obviously not. What ABA accredited school did he fraudulently acquire an education from?
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#2
Ben Johnson Wrote:Stalkers and all around arseholes better be careful what they say.  There is a whole mix of people with St. Regis degrees and any conclusions as to honesty may be premature.

Thanks to the Spokesman-Review for providing a nice list of potential rats:
Quote:In brief: Not everybody on the list bought degrees
July 30, 2008

A database list of almost 10,000 individuals associated with "Operation Gold Seal" includes names of 27 people who didn't necessarily buy degrees but were associated in other capacities with the investigation of a Spokane-based diploma mill, sources said Tuesday.

The 27 names are included in a master list obtained by The Spokesman-Review and published on the newspaper's Web site, spokesmanreview.com.

The 27 individuals include people who may have been given degrees by the diploma mill operators, had other business dealings with them, or are U.S. government employees or Liberian government officials who assisted in the investigation, sources said.

They are not accused of criminal conduct and should not be considered as confirmed buyers of degrees, sources said.

The names are: Melinda Adkins; Alick Lawrence Chambers; Domah Cooper; Theresa Dunaway; Craig Fullerton; Shirley George; Dale Gough; Karen Joy Grammar; John Grant; Kanika Grant; Bob Guidon; Jennifer L. Jacobi; Roy E. Jensen; Jayne W. Johnson; Michael Johnson; Nancy Keteku; Ernest Kiazolu; Aaron Kollie; Richard S. Montgomery; Dante Paradiso; Suzanne Petrucci; Rocky Pool; Christina Porche; Nancy M. Porinchok; Alexander H.N. Wallace; Steve Wise; and Peggy Zabriski.
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#3
Ben Johnson Wrote:The prosecutor never heard that St Regis offered honorary degrees.  Didn't the guy in charge ever look at the friggin website.  Obviously not.  What ABA accredited school did he fraudulently acquire an education from?

Quote:Marc LaBella, who teaches science at Ocean County College, said his name was on the list not because he’d bought a diploma ... but because a friend did so on his behalf, as part of what he described as an “honorary degree” program set up by the company under the St. Regis University name.

“It wasn’t a degree. Someone gave me as a gift an honorary degree from this company and it turns out it was a bogus degree,” said LaBella, who added that he’d spoken with the federal prosecutor on the case about the possibility of testifying in court. (The diploma itself, he said, contained misspellings as well.)

[Bud] Ellis, the prosecutor, said he wasn’t aware of any honorary degree program being run by the company, but he couldn’t deny its existence, either.
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/08/01/diplomas

Robert A. "Bud" Ellis, University of Texas, 1977.
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#4
Herbert Spencer Wrote:Robert A. "Bud" Ellis, University of Texas, 1977.

Steer or queer?
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#5
Quote:In brief: Not everybody on the list bought degrees
July 30, 2008

The names are: ...Dale Gough

Spokesman Review confirms this is the same Dale Gough who operates as "Director of International Education Services" for AACRAO:

Quote:One of them, Dale Gough, is an expert on diploma mills at the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers.
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/08/01/diplomas

Quote:International Consulting Service

Does your institution have inexperienced staff attempting to evaluate foreign credentials? Do you need someone to review your structure for or processing of international admissions?

An experienced IES professional will train your staff to evaluate foreign credentials, or to review your admission processes and policies for international applicants. Contact Dale Gough at 202-296-3359 or goughd@aacrao.org for more information.
http://www.aacrao.org/international/consulting.cfm
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#6
Ben Johnson Wrote:From Inside Higher Ed:

http://www.degreediscussion.com/forums/v...3&start=90


Of course that is about Jimmy kissing ass.  Here's the link

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/08/01/diplomas

Stalkers and all around arseholes better be careful what they say.  There is a whole mix of people with St. Regis degrees and any conclusions as to honesty may be premature.

The prosecutor never heard that St Regis offered honorary degrees.  Didn't the guy in charge ever look at the friggin website.  Obviously not.  What ABA accredited school did he fraudulently acquire an education from?

The mix of people with St. Regis degrees also includes those - probably a small number, I have no way of knowing - who had no idea at the time that they were dealing with a phony operation. The St. Regis con women and men were shrewd enough not to handle all applicants in the same way. When they realized that an applicant thought he/she was dealing with a real, accredited university and did not intend to just buy a degree, they played a totally different game.

This different game included work - sometimes very substantial - done by these applicants. The St. Regis con artists pretended that the assignments, projects, theses, and dissertations submitted by these people were assessed and approved by experienced faculty. Since the authorities have seized all St. Regis files, both electronic and print, they have in their hands the hard evidence of the works submitted by these few people. As a matter of fact, St. Regis maintained an electronic library where all written works submitted by "graduates" were published. Some of these works were very substandard even ludicrous, some were mediocre, and a very small number could be actually compared in quality with theses or dissertations submitted to regular, accredited universities.

These people duped this way can be accused of naivete, stupidity and many other things, but not dishonesty. People also seem to forget that for a number of years the Liberian embassy and Liberian Ministry of Education confirmed St. Regis accreditation and legitimacy. Now we know that Liberian officials were bribed, but we had no way of knowing that at the time.

To my knowledge, most St. Regis "graduates" belonging to the above category denounced their St. Regis "degrees" when, sometime in 2004, became certain beyond any reasonable doubt that it was St. Regis was a fraud. That is, when there was a formal announcement by the Liberian embassy to that effect. Some of these denouncements took place on discussion forums and are on public record.
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#7
Quote:This different game included work - sometimes very substantial - done by these applicants. The St. Regis con artists pretended that the assignments, projects, theses, and dissertations submitted by these people were assessed and approved by experienced faculty. Since the authorities have seized all St. Regis files, both electronic and print, they have in their hands the hard evidence of the works submitted by these few people. As a matter of fact, St. Regis maintained an electronic library where all written works submitted by "graduates" were published. Some of these works were very substandard even ludicrous, some were mediocre, and a very small number could be actually compared in quality with theses or dissertations submitted to regular, accredited universities.

These people duped this way can be accused of naivete, stupidity and many other things, but not dishonesty. People also seem to forget that for a number of years the Liberian embassy and Liberian Ministry of Education confirmed St. Regis accreditation and legitimacy. Now we know that Liberian officials were bribed, but we had no way of knowing that at the time.

This kind of explanation invites a number of problems...
With so many accredited institutions on public display, why would anyone bother with the next 'new' Rolleyes thing 'accredited' Big Grin from Liberia, Pakistan, Malaysia, Uganda...?
Why, if not to 'pull a fast one'?
I'm not saying that 'pulling a fast one' is moral or immoral, for it's the sole business of the agent, but I say that if one's goal is 'working hard', why doesn't one enroll in a 'research only' degree?
Didn't people think twice about 100% PLAR degrees?
The only caution is that people wanted it 'easy and fast'...but some might have objected 'not that easy and not this fast'.
Thirty years ago being misled in good faith was very likely, much as it is unlikely today, after the internet made information really fast and cheap.
Decades ago one had to buy 'guides', relying on the biased opinion of the author, or phone/write agencies, without receiving a reply.
Today I can just visit say detc.org ...i no longer need to write or buy books.
So do people want a fast'n'dodgy degree that looks impressive, say to impress dates or to bolster self-esteem (or other reasons)?
Fine, but please it isn't Oxford.
A.A Mole University
B.A London Institute of Applied Research
B.Sc Millard Fillmore
M.A International Institute for Advanced Studies
Ph.D London Institute of Applied Research
Ph.D Millard Fillmore
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#8
Many people actually did submit substantial work to St. Regis.

When people like Levicoff, who outwardly appears to show no significant intelligence, can brag about receiving 92 credits from TESC for life experience, why is it unreasonable that someone who actually is intelligent would expect similar treatment from a different school?

The fact that any evaluation would be done by a high school dropout would be unknown to the student.
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#9
Ben Johnson Wrote:Many people actually did submit substantial work to St. Regis.

When people like Levicoff, who outwardly appears to show no significant intelligence, can brag about receiving 92 credits from TESC for life experience, why is it unreasonable that someone who actually is intelligent would expect similar treatment from a different school?

The fact that any evaluation would be done by a high school dropout would be unknown to the student.

in fact the whole 'life experience' item is shrouded in the arbitrary rather than in common sense.
I just say that there are many venues to quench one's thirst for knowledge than dodgy outfits accredited from Uganda.
As most admit, celebrity faculty listings on mills' sites are either fraudulent or mere sales pitch...
As most admit, there is none beyond the computer screen to read one's dissertation but fraudsters, conmen and people busy pressing the 'print' button and laughing their way to the bank.
So why bother?
A fast'n'easy degree? Ok...
But why sweating a $29.99 ebay degree more than an Oxford triple doctorate?
Why tooting the 'freedom in academia' horn, then falling for 'accreditation' Big Grin from Congo?
Sure...it isn't from ebay and Joe paid it $2900 or 29000... shame on him, because he got nothing better than Jim who shopped on ebay...
A.A Mole University
B.A London Institute of Applied Research
B.Sc Millard Fillmore
M.A International Institute for Advanced Studies
Ph.D London Institute of Applied Research
Ph.D Millard Fillmore
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#10
[quote=ham]
[quote] This kind of explanation invites a number of problems...
With so many accredited institutions on public display, why would anyone bother with the next 'new' Rolleyes thing 'accredited' Big Grin from Liberia, Pakistan, Malaysia, Uganda...?
Why, if not to 'pull a fast one'?
[/quote]

My point is that some of these people were not aware that they were actually buying a degree. They had no idea that they could have obtained the same degree by just giving their credit card number and not presenting any work whatsoever. They were of course aware that St. Regis is not Harvard or Yale, but it was cheap, fast, and accepting limitless work done elsewhere. And, most importantly, it was - or rather appeared to be - accredited by a MOE. We all know that it doesn't matter if an institution is accredited in Liberia, Uganda, Malaysia or any other country, degrees from MOE accredited schools are accepted almost everywhere.

Some people transferred and/or completed work they had done or started at other (often legitimate) schools. They thought it was a unique opportunity to complete their studies interrupted for various reasons and get an accredited degree. It was obvious that it was fast, cheap and easy and not according to the standards of North American or European universities, but still had nothing to do with purchasing a degree.

If they knew they were buying a degree or intended to buy a degree, why would they make the effort to present theses and dissertations, some of them over 250 pages in length. Again, these people are certainly guilty of gullibility and stupidity, but not of dishonesty.
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