"Dr"  Bill Grover for candidate in the Hall of Shame
#1
Another candidate, IMHO, is Bill Grover - a senior poster on degreediscussion.com and one on degreeboard.com. In case of the latter board, he did not stay there for long because he could not deny the tone he got used to on degree discussion.com:

http://www.degreeboard.com/forums/Religi...at-t47665/

Despite the fact that I (my real name is Dr. Muhammad Schmidt) have had a fight with Bill Grover and his likes over the past 2 years because of some unfounded accusations they have made on degreediscussion.com, I also find the following highly problematic:

Grover tends to "advise" other posters on theology degree matters on various forums and sells his words as holy and non-questionable, expecting applause from everyone. This may not only mislead those seeking advice in adopting a larger perspective on the issue at hand (by not only following Grover´s way of looking at things) but it also includes an implicit insistence on that he is always right. If the latter (a mere speculation on my part) is true, then this would not be so uncommon: the bitterness of some old men who cannot accept that their time is over. If this applies, consequently, the entire set-up that Grover creates around himself is a "problem" reduced to a problem of his own ego and a self-serving muppet show.

It seems that degreediscussion.com is the home for all such more doubtful figures with some sort of doubtful degrees and and other background details and who in addition are incapable of discussion in a good, i.e. "scholarly", manner.  A degree as such - whether "first" or "second class" - does not make one a scholar automatically. Something more is required in terms of intellectual performance (e.g., publications) and a personality that can communicate on controversial issues without becoming "personal". Too many pretend scholars around there at degreediscussion.com.....

The kind of posts that Bill Grover and his likes make tell more about them than what others might say about them - rightly or wrongly. Really revealing!  
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#2
The internet is full of all kinds of people who claim to be 'experts' or 'insiders' in all sorts of things; I know I am no expert. Much as with Thomas Chip White (owner of degreeinfo), their real 'expertise' may differ: he's a gay teen pornographer and not a 'distance education authority'...hell, Chip White got no university degree soever.
Why would you waste your time online pillow fighting with those people?
A.A Mole University
B.A London Institute of Applied Research
B.Sc Millard Fillmore
M.A International Institute for Advanced Studies
Ph.D London Institute of Applied Research
Ph.D Millard Fillmore
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#3
ham Wrote:Much as with Thomas Chip White (owner of degreeinfo), their real 'expertise' may differ: he's a gay teen pornographer and not a 'distance education authority'...hell, Chip White got no university degree soever.
Why would you waste your time online pillow fighting with those people?

Well, Ham, it depends. Mostly, it is not really worthwhile, and I have heard a lot of advice like that in the respect in the past days. But I feel I can`t let such things ride without a response when I am falsely accused.

.......
Let me add some more input on the gay porn topic. I have lived and worked in China for quite a long time. I have seen things changing in China rapidly and radically. China has a huge labour market for foreign teachers of English As A Second Language. Like in Thailand and Korea, a lot of different kinds of foreign folks apply for and then find a job at a school. Some of them are sincere and well-intentioned, others have their own hidden agenda. One of them with a hidden agenda was an American guy from Kansas by the name of Kevin working as a DOS at Suzhou School of Foreign Languages (a Chinese-run private school in Jiangxi province). This Kevin guy had an intimate relationship with the male school owner, a married Chinese man. What`s worse, he also had the same kind of relationships with his male school students of minor age. People who wanted to report him to the police never really succeeded because of the good relationships the school owner maintained with the police (bribe). That`s China, you know.... They covered all this up.

What I see is that there are certain foreigners coming to work in a country like China with a totally unprofessional and unethical behaviour as teachers. The foreigners are considered "rich" by native standards, and they exploit poor and innocent children sexually because they have got the money to buy everything. This kind of "sexual exploitation" of native women, children - both male and female - in my opinion is a new kind of "colonialism" that I originally thought had long gone. I must say I feel very bitter about it. Child molesters and porns are not only disgusting but also unacceptable and should be brought to full justice - even in China! There are some people working on that Kevin guy and his likes.

BTW, academics and standards at Chinese unis would be a really interesting topic. Bill Grover might be delighted to learn about the options for a doctorate there if Chinese state-run unis would provide for Theology degrees. In other words, Chinese unis are a real joke!
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#4
Quote:Let me add some more input on the gay porn topic. I have lived and worked in China for quite a long time. I have seen things changing in China rapidly and radically. China has a huge labour market for foreign teachers of English As A Second Language. Like in Thailand and Korea, a lot of different kinds of foreign folks apply for and then find a job at a school. Some of them are sincere and well-intentioned, others have their own hidden agenda. One of them with a hidden agenda was an American guy from Kansas by the name of Kevin working as a DOS at Suzhou School of Foreign Languages (a Chinese-run private school in Jiangxi province). This Kevin guy had an intimate relationship with the male school owner, a married Chinese man. What`s worse, he also had the same kind of relationships with his male school students of minor age. People who wanted to report him to the police never really succeeded because of the good relationships the school owner maintained with the police (bribe). That`s China, you know.... They covered all this up.

What I see is that there are certain foreigners coming to work in a country like China with a totally unprofessional and unethical behaviour as teachers. The foreigners are considered "rich" by native standards, and they exploit poor and innocent children sexually because they have got the money to buy everything. This kind of "sexual exploitation" of native women, children - both male and female - in my opinion is a new kind of "colonialism" that I originally thought had long gone. I must say I feel very bitter about it. Child molesters and porns are not only disgusting but also unacceptable and should be brought to full justice - even in China! There are some people working on that Kevin guy and his likes.

I know this is an old thread and post but it really just gets my goat. This Schmidt guy (known as "Turnoi" at one infamous eslteachersboard.com website) took the word of a bitter teacher who worked at the school in question for about 2 1/2 months. This "teacher" was one weird, old gay character who left the school angry and befuddled. Because things didn't go his way, he went to the aforementioned website (along with a handful of other sites) and started spreading rumors about Kevin and other foreign teachers, Chinese staff and administration, the school principal, and even the school itself. He was (and still is I'd imagine) a hateful, bitter old man who couldn't stand to see a decent school get one over on him.

Then Schmidt/Turnoi climbs aboard this weirdo's parade float and starts accepting EVERYTHING he claimed as if it were the holy gospel and begins a campaign against this teacher Kevin and the school. There was never any child molestation, no "sleeping with school owner" business, nothing of the sort. It is now late May of 2012 and let's see:

1) Kevin still works at this school. I don't care how much cover-up one claims happened or is happening, parents would not put up with child molestation! If this were truly happening, I daresay that some hired thug would be meeting Kevin on a dark and deserted street somewhere and take him out. As little as I know about the psyche of a child sexual molester, I know enough that people of that sort usually cannot stop. It's like an addiction or a disease. The dam would break at some point if this behavior was going on for several years.

2) Schmidt/Turnoi in 2009 got a lot of his "facts" a bit askew: The school is not owned by a man, rather a corporation (which has recently changed hands with another corporation). The person he falsely accused is and was the principal of the school. The principal is a married man, yes, with two grown children. His sexuality is certainly not my concern but I see many of the female staff constantly flocking around him (kissing up to him is how I see it) and he just eats it up.

3) Kevin was never a DOS at this school. His current title is full-time 4th grade teacher and part time Academic Adviser. Once again, the ex-teacher made up the "facts" and Schmidt/Turnoi accepted them fully without any sort of investigation into the validity of the statements.

4) The school is not in Jiangxi Province, it's in Jiangsu Province. The school is called "Suzhou Foreign Language School" and not Suzhou School of Foreign Languages.

5) Kevin is openly gay. By that I mean he doesn't date a Chinese girl to try and hide who he is. But gay does not automatically equal child molester, at least not where I am from. The teacher, I've been told, that quit and started posting all this crap on forums is allegedly also gay, so maybe he has some experience himself in the world of child molestation? Don't know, just a thought. Maybe he and Schmidt/Turnoi have or had some sort of "relationship" beyond what any of us would know about so perhaps that is why Schmidt/Turnoi so easily accepted the word of this former teacher? Just speculating, mind you.

6) As far as I can tell (I work in a different department of the school, so don't know him well), Kevin seems to be well-liked and well-respected by many at this school and he's been here for something like seven years so far. I really don't think someone with a dark "secret" would last that long at one establishment pretty much anywhere in the world.

As you can see from Schmidt/Turnoi's posting, it is riddled with errors. However, at that time he was so eager to point an accusatory finger at Kevin (as to "why" is beyond me) that he didn't verify any of the so-called "facts" and just put up some garbled posting and assumed anyone would take it at face value. If you've ever visited his website, you'll see he points that gnarled finger at many a people stopping by with a wide variety of accusations and falsehoods. A "legit" PhD holder probably should do a bit more research and verifications before making such unfounded accusations.

Once things are posted on the internet they are there forever. If Kevin truly were a child molester, then I'd applaud Schmidt/Turnoi for his due diligence. But just throwing muck around here, there, and elsewhere is irresponsible and reprehensible.
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#5
What is this all about anyways?
Someone under pseudonym but who admits to be called Muhammad alleged that some other pseudonym on an internet site claimed some other guy named Kevin works as an educator in China and aggressively lives out his gay fantasies with natives.
The contention here is that this Kevin guy, whoever he might be, is gay indeed, but the nice variety.
Who bloody cares, I say.
A.A Mole University
B.A London Institute of Applied Research
B.Sc Millard Fillmore
M.A International Institute for Advanced Studies
Ph.D London Institute of Applied Research
Ph.D Millard Fillmore
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#6
(05-26-2012, 01:42 PM)ham Wrote: What is this all about anyways?
Someone under pseudonym but who admits to be called Muhammad alleged that some other pseudonym on an internet site claimed some other guy named Kevin works as an educator in China and aggressively lives out his gay fantasies with natives.
The contention here is that this Kevin guy, whoever he might be, is gay indeed, but the nice variety.
Who bloody cares, I say.

I second the mucking fotion.

UUUUuuugggGGGHHHH!
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#7
(07-16-2009, 03:22 AM)Vice Wrote: Let me add some more input on the gay porn topic. I have lived and worked in China for quite a long time. I have seen things changing in China rapidly and radically. China has a huge labour market for foreign teachers of English As A Second Language. Like in Thailand and Korea, a lot of different kinds of foreign folks apply for and then find a job at a school. Some of them are sincere and well-intentioned, others have their own hidden agenda. One of them with a hidden agenda was an American guy from Kansas by the name of Kevin working as a DOS at Suzhou School of Foreign Languages (a Chinese-run private school in Jiangxi province). This Kevin guy had an intimate relationship with the male school owner, a married Chinese man. What`s worse, he also had the same kind of relationships with his male school students of minor age. People who wanted to report him to the police never really succeeded because of the good relationships the school owner maintained with the police (bribe). That`s China, you know.... They covered all this up.

What I see is that there are certain foreigners coming to work in a country like China with a totally unprofessional and unethical behaviour as teachers. The foreigners are considered "rich" by native standards, and they exploit poor and innocent children sexually because they have got the money to buy everything. This kind of "sexual exploitation" of native women, children - both male and female - in my opinion is a new kind of "colonialism" that I originally thought had long gone. I must say I feel very bitter about it. Child molesters and porns are not only disgusting but also unacceptable and should be brought to full justice - even in China! There are some people working on that Kevin guy and his likes.

BTW, academics and standards at Chinese unis would be a really interesting topic. Bill Grover might be delighted to learn about the options for a doctorate there if Chinese state-run unis would provide for Theology degrees. In other words, Chinese unis are a real joke!
Interesting. Most of my knowledge of China is second hand, having never been there (but truely wishing to go!)

China is the new wild west my friend. My sister was there and had much to report.

Its now flooded with Americans and other westerners wanting to teach english. I am reminded how 20 years ago any fool could go to Russia and teach english to kids. I knew one such person, he was a British dude who taught English to kids. He was also a heavy drinker and womanizer. And for an English teacher he sure loved to swear. This guy used obscene words in ways i never heard before.

I posted some time ago about how Chinese Medical Schools are recruiting foreign students, lured by easy admission standards and low cost. I also know personally a young lady from Thailand with a medical degree. She told me that the US medical board exams are far harder than anything anywhere else. Its so hard that many Chinese doctors with MDs will practice accupuncture and other traditional medicines because they cannot get the MDs.

Incidently, if you are foreign and have intimate relations with a Chinese citizens you can go to prison. Usually foreigners are deported but its far worse for the person you have sex with. China is very puritanical society and premaritial sex is frowned on, as is homosexuality and prostitution. This may have changed but I have heard that things were that way.

I do plan on going to Asia some day. I think that Japan would be on the top of my list and China later. A co worker told me that I can travel to the Phillipenes really cheap. I might consider that.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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#8
Quote:China is very puritanical society and premaritial sex is frowned on, as is homosexuality and prostitution. This may have changed but I have heard that things were that way.

Thank g-d they are puritans...they built a open air red light district this big in Lhasa and loads of discos and cabarets...
A.A Mole University
B.A London Institute of Applied Research
B.Sc Millard Fillmore
M.A International Institute for Advanced Studies
Ph.D London Institute of Applied Research
Ph.D Millard Fillmore
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#9
I had a friend who traveled to China with his father, some years ago. My buddy is a meteorologist, who works for a governmental agency. While traveling in China he was propositioned by a buku amount of hookers. He stated that one brazen hooker even exposed her "box" to him when he rounded a corner near an alley. Short of saying" me love you long time"...she was the stereotypical oriental hooker, looking for some quick lettuce. The way he described it was hilarious and kinda raunchy...but funny
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#10
(06-02-2012, 06:55 AM)bigfoot Wrote: He stated that one brazen hooker even exposed her "box" to him when he rounded a corner near an alley.

I think you will find their American counterparts often employ similar sales tactics. Definitely a guarantee against a "bait and switch" scenario, although I suspect those who find their dates in alleys aren't all that choosy.
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