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Is the DETC really second-rate? - Printable Version

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Is the DETC really second-rate? - Little Arminius - 12-19-2008

Is the DETC really second-rate?

It certainly appears that Uncle Janko and Steve "Name It and Frame It" Levicoff think so.

anti-DETC thread at DD

Apparently DD newbie, BiomedGuy, thought that Degreediscussion.com was all about the free and open exchange of ideas in the distance education arena ...

BiomedGuy didn't read the fine print:  
1. Your posts must pay homage to "RA or No Way!"
2. DETC is a barely tolerable alternative.
3. A stigma is rightfully attached to all DETC-accredited school diplomas.
4. DETC-accredited school graduates should be viewed with great suspicion - they may be a shill.
5. People should avoid talking about DETC schools in polite company so as to not give them further legitimacy.



RE: Is the DETC really second-rate? - Gabe - 12-20-2008

To answer your question? Nah, I don't think so.

I think the trucker pisses on DETC because both his undergraduate & doctorate degrees are in the "unranked" category over at U.S. News & World Report. He can't stack his degrees up against any other non-specialty RA school (except maybe Western New Mexico which I previously reported is also unranked) so why not bash one of the more prominent, low cost alternatives? Since most (not all) members of DD place more importance on RA over NA Levicoff's degrees would only be more superior to DETC and that's using THEIR logic.

Now, I'm sure Levicoff will give some profanity laced rebuttal as to why he thinks what he does, but I could give a shit. He's entitled to his opinion as equally as I'm entitled to mine.

Let's take a look just for a moment, at the U.S. News rankings methodology: "The U.S. News rankings system rests on two pillars. It relies on quantitative measures that education experts have proposed as reliable indicators of academic quality, and it's based on our nonpartisan view of what matters in education."

Let's take a look at the first part: "It relies on quantitative measures that education experts have proposed as reliable indicators of academic quality..." Now, isn't that what accreditation does or is supposed to do? We always hear "elsewhere" that accreditation is the only indicator of quality and since accreditation is peer-reviewed I don't see how the U.S. News rankings should be viewed any differently.

This reminds me of another post of mine where I mention that RA schools are not without controversy. I listed Phoenix, AIU, Capella, to name a few. Notice the common denominator? Yes, they are all RA, but they are also predominantly non-traditional in nature which makes them a threat, IMO, to the often archaic educational methods currently in place at their "peer" institutions.


RE: Is the DETC really second-rate? - Fort Bragg - 12-20-2008

I've heard the DETC put down for too many years. Why would such a weak sister among accreditors have much stricter regulations than the regionals? Schools must use proctored exams and maximum transfer credit is 3/4 of a bachelors or 1/2 of a masters. Life experience learning is also limited to 1/4 of a bachelors. If Levicoff's school TESC was DETC he might have had to take some courses to earn his bachelors.


RE: Is the DETC really second-rate? - Armando Ramos - 12-21-2008

Little Arminius Wrote:Is the DETC really second-rate?

DETC degrees are, by definition, obtained through distance learning, and only distance learning.

Having spent far too much of my life sitting on my ass in a classroom trying to stay awake while people who know even less than I do about the topic drone on and on, I really can't see any magic benefits that accrue from "traditional" B & M courses.

Personally I find that I learn a lot more when I can study in an environment of my own choosing and creation, get up and take a whiz when I need to, go get a sandwich when I'm hungry, turn on the radio and/or the stereo when the mood strikes, or just blow it off and go work out when I've had enough.

I don't see that my learning experience would be improved at all if I first had to fight traffic, try to find a parking place, wonder if thieves or vandals will select my vehicle for their attention today, dodge proselytes and perverts on the way to class, involuntarily listen to some deviant's political indoctrination disguised as part of the class, sit at a desk designed for a midget, rub elbows and make small talk with people to whom I wouldn't give the time of day otherwise, etc. etc.

Those with the multi-billion dollar endowments and owners of said bricks & mortar would have us believe that only the latter above-described experience constitutes the full measure of a true and valid education. I think not.  

The fact is that when people cannot be herded, confined and detained they are less amenable to indoctrination, peer pressure and threats.  It's easy to see why the purveyors of enforced political orthodoxy hate DETC.  


RE: Is the DETC really second-rate? - ham - 12-22-2008

Quote:I don't see that my learning experience would be improved at all if I first had to fight traffic, try to find a parking place, wonder if thieves or vandals will select my vehicle for their attention today, dodge proselytes and perverts on the way to class, involuntarily listen to some deviant's political indoctrination disguised as part of the class, sit at a desk designed for a midget, rub elbows and make small talk with people to whom I wouldn't give the time of day otherwise, etc. etc.

Those with the multi-billion dollar endowments and owners of said bricks & mortar would have us believe that only the latter above-described experience constitutes the full measure of a true and valid education. I think not.  

The fact is that when people cannot be herded, confined and detained they are less amenable to indoctrination, peer pressure and threats.



Thanks to the internet one can access resources online, buy books for cheap or have rare articles or sources mailed to his doorstep. Sure, he may have to pay for it, but nowhere near the bare costs of commuting alone.
As a plus, I haven't to worry about what the 'funny' (colored, transgendered, communist, 'liberal'...) classmate, teacher or official may think of my opinion...or to be accused to have wasted years of youknowwho's psychotherapy.
Politics cast aside, I am not interested in booze, parties and smoking pot. I can always visit a strip-club or brothel that won't cost me $400 per credit hour.
You won't believe I had a postgraduate classmate who -in the early afternoon- attended lectures after drinking heavily and smoking stuff, as his breath could tell.
Another was a communist junkie living on state subsidies AND at the same time wishing for a revolution that would annihilate the status quo to avenge the exploitation of third world farmers.
Fine, I said...when would you love such revolution to take place? The day before or the day after you get your welfare cheque?
Silence shrouded the class.
He wants to climb the corporate ladder to become a university teacher...his classes' syllabi would have been appropriate for East Germany in the 1970s...
What's the wage of his profession of choice?
$100.000...$150.000 a year...
Yea, right up the very a$$ of those third world exploited farmers, eh?


RE: Is the DETC really second-rate? - ShotoJuku - 12-22-2008

Precious Metal (Semantics)

IL (Ivy League) = Platinum

RA (Any of the Eight) = 24k Gold

NA (DETC, TRACS, ABHE, or ACE Reviewed) = 14k Gold

NA (ACCCT, ACCET, ACICS) = 10k Gold

SA (State Approved and Legal) = Silver

DM (Diploma Mills and/or Illegal)  = Lead…….or Kryptonite!

I like the DETC and firmly believe that they fill a void for those of us that either cannot or choose not to attend a B&M school.



RE: Is the DETC really second-rate? - Dennis Ruhl - 12-23-2008

I cannot comprehend any difference between accreditors. They all do the same things with equal conviction. All the big schools with the big budgets are regionally accredited. They would still be quality schools without any accreditation.

The DETC accredits mostly private for-profit schools. I don't know that similar regionally accredited schools are superior. Is the average regionally accredited community college a better school than the average DETC school? I doubt it. Some schools are preferable to others but I suspect type of accreditation has nothing to do with it.


RE: Is the DETC really second-rate? - Armando Ramos - 12-23-2008

Japanese car companies in the late sixties overcame the post-war "Jap crap" stigma by making good, cheap, efficient, reliable cars.  When you are spending your hard earned money you tend to spend it where it will do you the most good, regardless of social or political concerns.  

If Ivy and RA are Cadillacs, NA is a Toyota, a nice value for the money whose useful qualities more than offset the lack of chrome and velour.  Keep the government out of the marketplace and the consumers will decide the value of the product.  


RE: Is the DETC really second-rate? - ham - 12-24-2008

Quote:If Ivy and RA are Cadillacs, NA is a Toyota, a nice value for the money whose useful qualities more than offset the lack of chrome and velour. Keep the government out of the marketplace and the consumers will decide the value of the product.

I say this: it's like visiting a five stars restaurant. You receive two balls of ice creams in glamorous settings with crystal lamps, chalk countertops etc, served on silverware by a fully attired lackey and pay say 50$ for that. Conversely, you can visit an ice cream parlour or supermarket and buy the finest ice cream for $10 or 15 the kilogram.
The same applies to the DL/B&M divide...
With B&M you get tasty 'contracts' to the delight of contractors on friendly terms with the B&M establishment with the blessings of its 'elected' puppeteers; you get sporting halls, fantastic 'varsity sport' contracts and other paraphernalia worth millions.
You pay for that in taxes & tuition fees EVEN IF you hate sport & never visit sporting hall.
The latest example: the Quebec government grants CAN$ 245 millions to UQAM university after the same sunk its own budget after a hectic row of speculations in real estates that left holes as big as

Quote:# L'UQAM avait la responsabilité de la dette totale de l'Îlot Voyageur, 142 M $;
# L'UQAM avait la responsabilité de la dette totale du Complexe des Sciences, 180 M $;

Guilt lays with heftily paid 'consultants' and 'administrators' who are now gone while new consultants, lawyers and administrators turn shocked to big brother to make up for the 'glitch'.
Of course only biased evil thinkers may surmise that some of those 'honest administrators' stuffed their bank accounts as a result of those real estate deals.

Quote:Les quatre syndicats de l’UQAM reçoivent avec satisfaction le Rapport du Vérificateur général du Québec déposé hier à l'Assemblée nationale. Nous acquiesçons à l’identification des grands facteurs à l’origine de la situation financière catastrophique dans laquelle notre Université se retrouve aujourd’hui.

À la lumière du Rapport, il apparaît que la responsabilité de l’ancien recteur, de son vice-recteur aux Affaires administratives et du directeur des Investissements est indéniable, et s’il y a matière à poursuite, le dossier doit suivre son cours.

http://scfp.qc.ca/modules/nouvelles/nouvelle.php?id=1351&langue=fr